How Jenny Galluzzo and The Second Shift Are Transforming the Way Women Work
Jenny Galluzzo is an agent for change. Her company, The Second Shift, empowers women through work — by connecting them with meaningful, ethical, and diverse jobs.. The company tagline “making work, work for women” is an apt one because it is precisely what Jenny is all about: cultivating careers while advocating for equality in the workplace. In this interview, this inspiring entrepreneur sits down with SEAM founder Amy Cohen Epstein to discuss her experience cultivating this important network as well as her previous life as a journalist.
Amy: I am thrilled to be talking to one of my closest friends, Jenny Galluzzo - who also, side note - is my little sister, my sorority little sister from college. So I feel extra connected to her. And this is one of those moments where I feel so... I mean, without sounding cheesy…so blessed, so lucky to have such incredible women in my life, and to have met so many at such a young age!
When I met Jenny, I certainly didn't know that we would have a lifelong friendship. I hoped, but I didn't know. And I also didn't know from the first time I met her, just how incredible she is. So being able to interview you today is a treat. I feel like in these professional capacities, I get to ask questions that I wouldn't normally ask. So I'm actually really excited because there are things I've always wanted to ask you, but haven’t come up in everyday life conversation. So, welcome to Jenny Galluzzo! Thanks for coming on.
Jenny: That's such a good intro. That made me so happy. Thank you.
Amy: You're welcome.
Jenny: This is so fun!
Amy: I know; it's the highlight of my day.
Jenny: My week!
Amy: So, I don't know when it was, but I remember having a conversation about what you wanted to be when we got out of college and “grew up”. And it was on air…you wanted to be Diane Sawyer. I’ve always remembered that. I remember that conversation very vividly. First, I know that's not who you are now, but tell me why that dream existed at such a young age.
Jenny: Sure. Well, I always worked. In high school, I worked as a model, and that was something that was defining and different, and gave me direction and purpose, and kept me out of – oh, I don't know - what would have otherwise been more trouble. I feel like I got in a lot of trouble, so I don't know. And then I realized that wasn't going to be a career that was going to have longevity for me.
I’m naturally very curious. I really like politics and world events, and I thought journalism seemed like a really good way to switch - to be able to pull all those things together. And I've always loved the New York Times. I read the op-ed in high school - I'm just nerdy like that. I still want to be Diane Sawyer, I just don't want to be like Christiane Amanpour. I just don't think that's actually where my life is going, but they have the best jobs ever!
I'm still a super nerdy, news/political junkie, who reads all day on Twitter and The New Yorker and the New York Times. I love it. I just think when I was that age, it seemed like a really interesting direction to go in. And at that time, it was like a heyday of the news, in some ways. It was the late '90s. And there was a lot of Peter Jennings and Diane Sawyer, and it seemed really glamorous and exciting - and it really was!
And then in college, if you remember, I started interning at the local ABC station in Durham, North Carolina. And I would listen to the police scanner - it was just fun. It was a fun thing to do. And I always liked working…I like having something that's outside of what I’m doing on my day-to-day, different groups of people to know, and different ways to feed my curiosity. So, that's why I got into it. And then I pursued it for a really long time, found I loved it and still love it.
Amy: And you were on air on… was it Plum TV? Is that right?
Jenny: I started my on-air career at News 12, the Bronx, where I had to carry my own camera and tripod. It was a one-man band, or one-woman band. You had to set up your whole thing, shoot it, edit it – everything! It was such a good education to cover the local news in the Bronx.
Amy: That's so cool!
Jenny: And then I went over to Plum TV, which was the complete opposite because it was a fluffy news startup/TV startup in the Hamptons.
Amy: Right! I remember that stage.
Jenny: That was fun. I hosted a TV show there for a few years, a year-round TV show, and produced it myself and booked it. That was great. Super fun. And then I did stuff in the city, like freelance.
Amy: What are your takeaways from that part of your life and that part of your career? Because to me, it's all one career that builds on top of each other. But what's your takeaway?
I think everything happens in chapters. And if you think about careers (and this is something we've learned now), I can look back and see that everything happens and builds for a reason.
Jenny: Absolutely. I think everything happens in chapters. And if you think about careers (and this is something we've learned now), I can look back and see that everything happens and builds for a reason. And I really believe in at some point, you have to know when that chapter is done. I knew when the time was over with modeling. I wasn't going to go make a career out of it. And at some point, I knew the TV world was done for me. The nights, the weekend schedule – and I mean, I had a baby! My career wasn't necessarily going where I wanted it to be.
That world was all just like Diane Sawyer and covering international news assignments…the entire field had changed. The industry was not what it was when I first got into it. And that wasn't going to be a reality for me, based on my actual life. So it was time to switch it up, and to figure out what was going to be next, to know that that chapter had ended, and to think about what was going to be the next chapter. What I've learned is you're better off being adaptable in this world. Knowing that (and knowing how to transition in and out of things) is more valuable than having a 30-year career in one place. Because then that's all you know, and you're semi institutionalized!
Amy: Yeah. Well, I was just about to ask, what are the great successes that you took from that period of your life? And I think you just said it. I'm sure there are many more. But I think it takes a lot of people their whole life to learn what you just said, that sometimes a career isn't for 100 years.
Jenny: And you're going to do different things! I think that there's that Nora Ephron quote - I'm going to totally butcher it! But it's basically like, “ …one of the beauties of being a woman is that you can take risks that men wouldn't necessarily have the guts to take. And you can try on new things, and you can have 500 different careers…” And at different points in time in your life, you're going to be different things! The headline or the top three things that define you will be really different. That quote is very specific, I think, for women. I could definitely say that for me, at different times and eras and phases in life, I would be defined totally differently.
Amy: I totally agree. I think that is one of the most amazing quotes. I don't think enough women take that to heart. I've basically had one career my whole life, running the Lynne Cohen Foundation, and all the facets that have popped up along the way.
But I definitely see different times of my life as really different focuses. I don't think women can do it all at the same time, but I don't think that means we can't do it all. I just think you do different things at different times, and sometimes that's your job, or your career, or what you focus on. And I think that's such an incredible thing to say, and I believe it in my heart, that we are gutsier in many ways than men. And I think it's because of what our bodies can do, and what we can know that we can do as women. I mean, it's so true.
Jenny: I think women are very adaptable. They're adaptable, but they're also really pragmatic.
Amy: Yeah!
The trick is cutting yourself a break, and knowing that this might not be the time that you're going to have the focus for this one thing and not killing yourself because of that! Also, recognizing that there's going to be another chapter and that you can do something different
Jenny: The trick is cutting yourself a break, and knowing that this might not be the time that you're going to have the focus for this one thing and not killing yourself because of that! Also, recognizing that there's going to be another chapter and that you can do something different, and not wasting the energy of spinning in circles because of it…that’s a good lesson, and it takes hindsight to do. Because you don't know that, until you've seen how everything builds upon itself. Someone could tell you, but it takes a lot of mindfulness and patience to see it all play out.
Amy: I agree; I totally agree! Which I guess leads us 100% into what you're doing now, with The Second Shift, which is so brilliant. Will you tell us a little bit about it, or a lot about it?
Jenny: It's a totally direct outgrowth of knowing that the time of TV, like I said before, was over. And that it was time to move on to another chapter, and not really knowing how to do that. The tools didn't really exist to be able to do that. I'd worked for 10+ years in TV, which is a very specific career path. To me, it was like, ‘okay, well, if you're not going to be in TV, what do people do instead?’ Sometimes people went into politics, or worked in political campaigns or PR…
But it was like, ‘This is what I do! This is the only thing I know how to do. I'm never going to be able to do something else…” It came down to me realizing that there had to be a way to take the skills that I’d accumulated. You know, like thinking about what I was good at and what were the skills I had, and thot to translate them and transition them into something else, and figure out who are the people who need that and want that? How does it all look? So that's what the impetus for The Second Shift was. And also realizing that there were a lot of people out there, who were sidelined and also flailing and figuring out how to transition themselves into a new career, at different times in their lives.
And as it happened, the timing was very good, because this was 2014 when I think I started the business with my partner, Gina. And she was in a very similar situation, but for totally different reasons. So we built this platform and we started building out the business. And then the 2016 election hit, and that changed what we were doing to being a mission aimed at keeping women engaged in the workforce. We think that women add a lot of value and they're sidelined, etc; we believe in flexibility - and that remote work should be something that's adapted.
And then in 2016, Hillary Clinton lost the election, and it changed the entire dynamic into one that was much more... well, there was much more data available for one. There were so many more studies done about women in the workforce. Women's empowerment became a movement, and we were just really well-positioned in that place - as thought leaders already in the space. So what we were trying to do took on a much bigger story, but it's still the same mission. It's still the same story. There’s just a bigger platform from which to tell it.
So we have a network of what we call “members”. There are 3000 now – all women from across the country - who are highly vetted, all with over 10 years of experience in their field. We check references, blah, blah, blah. So then once you're in our network, you're connected with jobs from the corporate partners we work with, who want to hire you for anything from a one-off project to a full-time job, to parental leave fill-in. The goal is keeping these women engaged in the workforce. People who should be rising into positions of power, where they can then make choices that will affect next generations, because we need more women in leadership, and we need gender equity at the very top of corporate America!
That's what we do. And I mean, I was talking to someone today, speaking of women’s careers, who had just spent 26 years working as a SVP, super high level at a gigantic telecommunications company. And she had taken a buy-out, because there was a restructuring and she just realized it was time for her to go.
And all of a sudden, she's sitting there - this woman with this crazy career, totally bad-ass - and she's like, "What am I going to do? I feel like I'm an imposter. Who's going to hire me?" And it's like, so much of yourself is tied into your job and your ego and who you think you are. It's like, how can this person feel that way? Because you are not your job! You may have three healthy, great kids. You may have a lovely family. You may be so successful. You probably have a huge network. People like this are going to get another job – but they just crumble!
Amy: I also think you need – well, a lot of times women, especially like the one you're describing - need someone to break down for them what their skills are, and how incredibly translatable they are, and how marketable they are, and how worthy they are of being recognized and paid for! And I think one of the problems for women is that we don't often see that in ourselves.
And then I think you have women who had an incredible education, and great schooling, and worked for a while, and then got married and had kids, and then feel like they could never get into the workforce. And they discounted all they've done in those 3, 5, 10, 15 years, even if it’s just raising a family! And all that you do in your own house and for your schools - all this stuff is translatable! I think until, really, you came along and told women that - it's been really hard for us to see that in ourselves. I don't think men have that problem.
Jenny: I don't know. Maybe men are the same! Maybe they just don't talk about it as much. Women are really good about talking about their feelings. This person I've known, but I haven't talked to in 10 years, can call me and spill her guts out because that's what we do. We tell each other our fears and our hopes, and maybe that doesn't exist in the same way for men, which is super sad. Because then you don't have somebody saying, "What!? Are you crazy? You're a badass! Fake it until you make it. You got this. You can do this, you can do that." Women do that for each other.
Amy: It's true. I love fake it until you make it. Just go for it.
Jenny: Just go for it! That's what you got to do, because you can tell yourself a million stories about how you can't do something, or it's not the right time…and so on. There are a million reasons why not to do something. Just doing it is important. I mean, look, I think women should stay engaged in the workforce always. I think it's important to work. I think it's a good paradigm to show your kids and your family, and it's important to have your own money and all of those things. And there's times when it works for people, and there are times when it doesn't. I want to give people the option, so that they don't have to choose one or another.
Amy: I think it's brilliant - it's brilliant! What have been some of your biggest challenges in creating The Second Shift in the last six years?
Jenny: So many. I mean, right now, no one's hiring anyone. That's a challenge. The entire business is based on people getting hired. And instead, they're all getting fired.
Amy: But some sectors are. I mean, some sectors are growing like bananas!
Jenny: Some sectors are, yes. It's figuring out which of those businesses are growing. Look, there are good things - not to redirect the question - but there are good things right now in the sense that we've been talking for so long about businesses transforming the way that they work, and having more childcare and remote work, and how important it is to be flexible. All of a sudden, they're all doing it and they've seen it work! And they know about the childcare thing, and they know about this school thing, because everyone's been forced to really confront that head-on over the past year or so.
It's really positive! And we're working with companies to help steer them in the right directions as they transform how they want to work, and how they want to structure their employees. That's great. What's sad to me is that a lot of the things that we've built, the wins and the successes that we've had have been wiped away. All of the jobs that were lost in the last quarter were women. One in four women are thinking about leaving the workforce, because of remote school and the crazy cost of childcare. So that breaks your heart.
And we've seen that play out also at The Second Shift, where at the beginning of the pandemic we had huge amount of people sign up because people were getting fired, and were freaking out and needed to work. And then as the months went on, and the reality of what we were facing in childcare, school, and just not being able to plan for anything…the numbers of people signing up has dropped. People can't take jobs…they don't know what the next six months will look like!
Amy: So bleak. So scary!
Jenny: It's a huge bummer. Yeah, it's a real bummer. But it won't be forever.
Amy: But you'll be there, no matter what.
Jenny: And hopefully at the end of this, we see a totally different work environment that's much more inclusive. If that's the benefit, then I hope it was all worth it.
Amy: I think so. And I think that also so many companies are restructuring what it means to come to an office, and what it means to be productive from home. I think that's one of the things that will come out of this, and change where people live and how they work and live. And if you can work from home from anywhere, then you can move somewhere where you can have more space, and maybe childcare is less expensive, and still have the same job.
I think that's one of the big pros that could come out of this. I mean, I see it around me! And I do think that will impact how women choose to work, and choose to take on what it means to have a full-time career, or a part-time, or project-based. The more options women have in that area, the better. I really believe that.
Jenny: Right now, we're really focused on mental health and wellbeing. Because while the jobs have dried up, we want them to double down on the emotional and community side of the business. And we're seeing there's a lot of fallout that's happening right now, as this pandemic has lasted for so long. So we're partnering with companies that do teletherapy, or remote workouts, or just all kinds of things to build women back up. So that way, we're ready to go when this utopia that you just outlined happens – so women aren't falling out of their houses bedraggled, having spent the last 18 months in a hole!
Amy: Yeah. I mean, totally! We’ve all been through it this year…
Jenny: With mental health specifically, too. We’re really dialing it in with the mental health stuff. Making sure people don’t crumble under the anxiety of it all right now.
Amy: I had a conversation yesterday with a wellness company about partnering on Wellness Wednesday Instagram Live feeds. Because what I found in the women that I speak to all over the world - literally all over the world - is that with this time that they have, they really want to learn about how to be healthy, because they need it in a way that they never needed it before! And more than just like, “how do you balance your diet”-type stuff. But everything from mental health, of course, to physical health, nutrition, learning about their hormone fluctuations, what supplements to take, etc. Like, “what's bad for me to put in my body that will increase my metals, and then how do you flush them out?”
I mean, women have so many questions right now - and are really seeking expert advice on it - in a way that I personally have never seen before. I think that's a positive, because it'll help us be ready, like you said, for the light that we can all barely see at the end of the tunnel. That focus on our true health and wellness is critical. Because I think for the first time, in a long time, we've had to look ourselves in the mirror and be like, "I'm a mess.”
Jenny: Yes! And you can't bake enough banana bread at this point, to pretend it hasn’t been going on as long as it has!
Amy: No. And when the world's a mess, it falls a lot on the women's shoulders - on our shoulders - to pick everyone else up around us. And reassure them that it's going to be okay. We forget about ourselves. But then you realize when it's gone on for this long, that if you're not healthy and stable, you certainly cannot do that for those around you. So providing those resources is phenomenal. I think that's really amazing.
Jenny: I'm a big fan of planning ahead. Being spontaneous in the moment, but always having a future plan. So a lot of it is like, ‘Okay, yes, this sucks. This is not great.’ But what do you want it to look like then, what are you going to do now to get there? Because the worst case scenario is you didn't do anything, and you’ll emerge from this pandemic having to start at square one. So use this time wisely. Create the discipline. Do the things now, learn and teach yourself. Spend this time wisely so that you're at the best version of you when we go back to normal life.
Amy: I agree. Whatever that looks like. Whatever normal is. I agree. How do you find balance personally?
Jenny: I don't know; I do Pilates. Today, my Pilates studio was open. And literally, the highlight of my day was that I actually went to the place - I walked there - I did the class - I went and got a coffee and came home1 And it was a little, tiny normal, bit of normal. I don't know. I mean, I just take walks, or take a bath, listen to podcasts…everything feels like a big, giant mush right now, so I'm not sure if it's balance. What is balance? I don't know…
Amy: I don't know….maybe just not going crazy? And in your life, over the last – what – well, 21 years since you graduated college -
Jenny: There’s no way that's true! Stop talking like that!
Amy: 1999.
Jenny: Stop it.
Amy: Is that right?
Jenny: Yes.
Amy: I'm '98 - I'm even earlier! Have you had mentors in your life?
Jenny: Yeah, absolutely. I've had lots of mentors, especially in starting The Second Shift. I found that when I worked in TV, I did have a lot of mentors and a lot were women. But it was really interesting because the majority of the women who I worked with did not have aspirational lives. They might've had aspirational careers. So while they were mentors, it was also like, ‘Hmmm, I don't know if I want to necessarily follow in your footsteps…’
Amy: I think that's a really important place to pause you. I don't think that a lot of people separate that out - inspirational jobs or careers and lives. And then for you, having someone in your life who you consider a mentor, being able to then separate them out, that's really important!
Jenny: Yeah, thank you. I mean, I would look at them and be like, ‘Wow, you've done all these things and your job is so exciting. I don't want your life though. This seems real depressing.’ And a lot of times, I would look at it and I would go from job to job. That’s what you do in TV. And then you would see what it looked like to have that life or that job. And it was an exciting job, and I was like, ‘I don't want to do this. This isn't the life I want to have.’ And then you just close that door and move on.
In the world I'm in now, which is this Female Foundry, ( a women’s empowerment group), there are so many amazing women. There is just this network of people who help each other and support each other, whether it's with connections or with funding…it's just a thriving ecosystem of women who I like and respect so much, and could ask for help with literally anything!
Amy: Yeah. I agree. And that's so new. It's so new!
Jenny: Oh, it's so great. And I think about it all the time, because it's separate from my everyday life with the kids and my personal friends. It's a totally separate world that exists around the work version of me. I really love all of the women. It's one of the things I miss, is there were so many events and ways in which we would gather - you get the energy from each other when you're together. You know, you're having a conversation, you're having a breakfast or a lunch, or whatever. That piece of it I really miss.
Maybe not the schedule as much, and the running around. It's nice to have more quiet time. But that feeling of being surrounded by women who are doing exceptional things, and are really thriving in different ways and engaged, whether it's in politics or business, or just the women's movement. I find that really, really inspiring.
Amy: I agree.
Jenny: Women like you, Am.
Amy: And you, Jenny.
Jenny: Women like you.
Amy: I don't know when that turned, when we started really helping each other and looking out for each other!
Jenny: 2016. It happened in 2016. That's exactly what it started, when we were... well…it did exist before that. But it just took on an immediacy and a desperation, where women realized that we had to actually pull together post-election. We had to do these things for ourselves. It really opened the door to what was happening in the world. Especially because like I said earlier, there's so much data that was done. There were so many studies coming out all of a sudden - you couldn't ignore it! It wasn't anecdotal anymore.
Amy: I agree. And men have always done it, and they've always given each other the “ins”, and pushed each other in directions that they needed to go and introduce people, etc., And women were always so secretive and held on to their rank, as if other women were going to come steal it from them. I mean, you're right. It was just then, four years ago, when we said, ‘Wait a second. I don't need to hold this for myself - I need to share this! I need to share everything. I need to share how I made it, how I got here, how my challenges, my successes. How can I help other women get to bigger places?’
I think it was such a great shift. Always, good can come out of really hard times. And I think that that's one of the biggest things I see, personally. I really do. And I'm grateful.
Jenny: Absolutely. It's such an amazing time to be part of.
Amy: Yeah, I agree. I agree.
Jenny: I love women bringing others up with them, and just busting down all of the conventional thought about the way in which women work together, or how women fund businesses, or what you can and you can't do.
Amy: I agree.
Jenny: Rewriting a new world.
Amy: Yeah. It's a whole new world. I agree – it’s phenomenal and it's really empowering. I feel lucky to be at this age, in my mid-40s, where I can see it and enjoy the fruits of it and still be a part of it. I think that's really cool. I think I'm happy for the young women, to see that this will hopefully always be the way it is for them. But I do find it really phenomenal to be this age, where I can watch it happen, see it happen, while being a part of it. And know that younger people will get it, and know that older people can look and say, ‘Wow, this is happening’, too. I just wish that had happened when I was going through life earlier, basically. But good thing it's happening now. I mean, I find that to be really... I don't know. To me, that's one of the greatest successes.
Jenny: Yes, it's awesome – I feel so excited that I got to be part of it.